The following is an edited version of the transcript from pesn.com
Andrea Rossi is an engineer, businessman, and inventor. Originally from Italy he now resides in the United States.
In Andrea Rossi’s own words on January 14,2012
A.Rossi: ”I have made in Italy from 1970 when I started to work. I was born in 1950. I have made biomass energy, power and energy plants. And that has been my source of work. And when in 1989, Fleischmann and Pons made their press conference announcing their discovery, I had been fascinated from that effect. From that period I started to try to reproduce their effect, and I did not succeed to reproduce it with their system. So I have researched other systems. And around 2006 or 2007 we started to have an amount of energy produced using low energy nuclear reactions. And at that point I have focused the attention exclusively on this issue. I sold all my other businesses and financed this research. I asked the help of the University of Bologna through Professor Focardi, and I must say that initially I asked him to be a consultant to us, to show me that my system could never work. To make me free from it, because it was an obsession. It was too good to be true, so I said, “Please explain to me why it does not work.” And after some day he said, “I have some bad news for you, I think the system works.” And so it is worth it for you to stay in this track. We worked together, we asked his consulting mainly for the safety issues, to go ahead with the experiments in a safe way, and to make the prototypes so that they could be safe. And then we arrived to the presentation of one year ago, when we were ready to present an apparatus able to produce an energy that was usable in real industrial situations. I hope that my English is enough to let you understand what I am saying.
The E-Cat we must put a distinction between the industrial plants, and what will be the domestic plants that we will start to deliver in the next winter. In any case, the kind of module of an E-Cat is made by a small box as big as a box of cigarettes to give an idea. Inside which there is a powder of nickel, and is compressed hydrogen. Inside this.. and there are also the catalyzers from which the name E-Cat, which is a shortcut for Energy Catalyzer, the differentials of pressure and temperature properly handled produce an effect that emits a low energy gamma rays. The gamma rays then hit the wall of lead, and the lead turns the gamma rays, the low energy gamma rays, into heat. The heat then heats the water that flows outside the reactor.
To produce a megawatt power of energy, we employ a very, very very tiny amount of hydrogen and nickel. And this effect has now been understood very well. And the theory will be presented soon. And this way, we can produce energy without emission of any kind of gas, without as you correctly said production of any kind of waste, without using radioactive materials, without radioactive leaving materials. Without emission of CO2, or noise, or anything else. So it is environmentally friendly.
Since the materials that we use are nickel and hydrogen, should the temperature go too high, at that point the nickel which is just nickel, like the nickel of the five cent, five cents of dollar. And the nickel when it melts is no more powder. Then the E-Cat cannot work if the nickel is not powder. So automatically intrinsically we say, if the temperature goes too high, the E-Cat turns out. It is switched off, because has no more proper nickel in powder form to operate.
What we produce now is just heat. Because we have not yet resolved the problems that we have to turn this heat into electric energy. It will take between one and two years to be able to make E-Cats that make also electricity, besides heat. For now we are just heating with our E-Cats.
The amount of nickel that we consume is very, very tiny respect to the amount of nickel that is produced. To understand well this I can use numbers. You must consider that one gram of matter of mass of matter, of nickel or anything in this world is equal… can produce if turned into heat, can produce twenty three thousand megawatt hours of energy. Again, one gram of mass, of nickel, can produce twenty three thousand megawatts of energy. If you think this, you can imagine that even if this kind of technology will be well used in our planet, the amount of nickel consumed in one year will be less than 1% of the nickel that today is produced in the world. And so it is impossible that there can be shortages of nickel because it is absolutely. It is irrelevant the amount that is consumed.
But you must consider that we make tests everyday in our laboratory with our consultants, with our apparatus. Now the technology is very solid, the E-Cats now are very stable. We have manufacturing right now, one megawatt plants why for the domestic small E-Cats, we, first of all, we have started the certification process with underwriter laboratories, which will be necessary to sell the E-Cats. And at the same time, we are engineering, right now, we are preparing a totally robotized manufacturing factory, which will be able to produce one million pieces per year. This will be in the United States. And I am honored to say this, because I reside in the USA. I love the United States, and I wanted for many reasons that now I cannot explain, to develop in the United States this technology. And I want that this technology is American. In Florida. And at this point, the very important issue now for many reasons is to push the price of an E-Cat very, very down. Because this technology must be for all. And I want that a ten kilowatt E-Cat costs around $500 dollars. To make this we must absolutely robotize and engineer very well the manufacturing lines, because you know, to compete… because once we will have defused our devices, our E-Cats, in the market, we will be subject to copies, intentional copies and competition. And to compete against, also because yes, we have patents pending, but to be sure that the reverse engineering will not put in jeopardy our production, we had to make it the best way to fight against the competition is to have a very low price. This is the effort that now we are making, because I foresee that we will have to compete against production made in China, and we have China or other countries where, of course the work… We cannot compete against that kind of system, social system that makes the work have costs that are unsustainable for us. So we have to fight against them with best, better engineering in the production lines. Now our efforts are passed from the technology of the E-Cat which is mature and stable right now, to the engineering system. Because if not, we have won the battle of the technology, we risk to go to lose the war of the competition. Which is why now we have to work very hard on the engineering. And we are doing it. There is so we will be able to put in the market in a very cheap way, and you will be surprised from the very high level of easiness of use of the E-Cat.
We must foresee reverse engineer and to put knock out the reverse engineering that will come from, from countries that do not respect the standards of welfare of workers that we respect in the USA. We have to be prepared so that it will be impossible to beat us under the economic point of view. If not, we will make the end of the companies like Solyndra or the other one, that you know started making solar panels, but then arrived the Chinese and they have been put out of business. And you know, we have to study very well those cases in history, because we must foresee what they will do. And we must anticipate this war, because this is a war, and we want to win it.
You know, many other technologies based on nickel and hydrogen tried to work, but they did not work. And this is why we have to cover them. Of course once we will have millions of pieces in the market it will not be very very difficult for a laboratory to understand which are these catalysts, but at that point, as I said before, we will be so well engineered with a production system that the reverse engineering will not be enough to compete with us. Because after that there will be the necessity to compete with us. And so, I hope we will take an advantage.
Also, while we are talking about the function of the technology, there is also been talk about some kind of a frequency that is used to impose on the system, some kind of electromagnetic radio… some kind of vibrational frequency. this is a confidential issue. Yes, we use… I can say you this… That we use a system that is similar to what happens in the martial arts, oriental martial arts. The effect is based on the fact the forces that theoretically should fight against us, and I mean the Coulomb forces, are used to help us. This is the principle. And this is the issue. This effect is an effect where we have turned to our advantage what theoretically has to be to our disadvantage.
We are working very well with National Instruments, and we are learning a lot from them. And surely their technology is helping us in the stability issue, and this will be very useful, mainly in the path to arrive at the production of electricity. Because you could ask me why are you able to produce heat, and are you not yet able to make electricity. While it will be very easy turn heat into electricity, it is not a big issue to turn heat into electricity. Yes, theoretically the effect is that to make electricity with acceptable efficiency, you must have temperatures of at least 400 Celsius degrees. And which means kind of around 1,000 degrees. And this factor makes unstable the reactor. Now we have a very good stability now, and the E-Cat up to 120C degrees is very stable and works properly with no problems at all, without peaks. One year ago we had problems of peaks, that made unstable the reactor. Now, after one year we have reached a very good stability until 120C. So to make heat is not a problem. To go higher than that, because you know, theoretically should be easy to raise the temperature. Because you put in series instead of in parallel the E-Cats, and put them in series you should raise the temperature. Yes, this is true, but unfortunately when we arrived to high temperatures we had problems. And, but we are resolving these problems. And we are resolving this problem with the help of the customer that had bought the one megawatt plant and with the help of National Instruments which is a wonderful, a wonderful supplier, because their philosophy is to teach to their customer to fish. They said to me in one of the first meetings I had with their managers and their scientists, they said we want to teach to your company to.. We want not just to sell to you a fish. But we want they said, you to learn to fish, because if you learn to fish, we can go fishing together. And upgrade together the technology. And this philosophy of theirs is a philosophy that will give very good results.
The unit that has to be certified is the unit exactly how it will be when we will put it in.. we have made prototypes of the unit which is much smaller, much lighter, etc. Because it is already engineered to be produced in big quantities. So it is already engineered, and it has been assembled along the directions that already the engineer of UL, that I am working with, gave us.
It will look like a small portable computer. It will have close the dimensions of a small portable computer, and it will be possible to apply heat to any existing heater. So you will just heat up.. You know the model for me has been the software of Microsoft. The software of Microsoft is a processor that you insert into any computer of the world. And the concept is the same. The E-Cat will be a processor able to make heat that you can.. in any kind of heater existing in the world in a very simple way, and every contractor or installer will be able to plug it in. And to refill it which is necessary every six months, or every 180 days of operation, it will be very easy, because it will be like to refill a pen, and this will be the E-Cat.
For what concerns the heat the water of the heating system, to heat the rooms to heat factories, houses, etc. Yes. It will have the necessary elasticity. For water where you need, you know… The fact that the gas turns on when you open the valve of the water to wash your hands, and then you close the valve and the gas turns off. This elasticity of course is impossible, so the E-Cat will be plugged to resolve basically the ability to be connected fundamentally with heating circuit. While the existing heater will continue to be the one used for the symmetry. You know, your heater gives you two kinds of water. The water to heat the radiators, to give the heat to give the right temperature to the rooms.
What counts is that a charge lasts one hundred and eighty days, I mean one hundred and eighty operational days. So if you use it in…. if you use it for one month of the year, one charge will last six years, not six months. The charge is consumed only if you need the operation. If you do not need the operation you turn the E-Cat off, and after thirty minutes or one hour maximum, the E-Cat is turned off and consumes nothing.
Our system point which will be closed to the customer and later I will explain you why, will supply to the customer the re-fills, and the customer can change the re-fills himself, or if he wants the installer or the plumber can go to make the change. It is a very easy operation. And the old cartridge will be sent back to us, because we recycle it. And we have just to re-treat the nickel. And then the cartridge, the old cartridge becomes new and is ready to be put again into operation. And so there will be a circulation of cartridges, because you have an E-Cat when the cartridge is consumed you give it back to our agency, and change it and put on the new one, and the old one goes in our factory to be re-treated. And of course completely recycled. And that’s it… The reason why I stated before that the assistance point would be close to the customer is very simple, because the fact that an E-Cat can be attached to any kind of heater you already have makes possible to us to tell you to go to your installer, to your traditional installer or plumber, and put him in contact with us. And we will give him instructions to assist you.
The re-fill cost, if you change the re-fill yourself, it is basically nothing. Just the cost of the cartridge. A cartridge can cost ten dollars, and to change it yourself, it’s over. You have to spend nothing more. If not, you have to pay the installer, the trip that, the return trip he has to make to come to your house and change it.
Here we have a big surprise. This is a big surprise. It is very likely that the E-Cats we are working with now, work without canisters of hydrogen, because we have resolved the problem with a substance that inside the reactor stores and recycles the hydrogen. Consuming it, but you know we consume a picogram of hydrogen, and so a charge of ten grams lasts six months of operation. So basically, we have resolved the problem of the canister. The problem of the canister was very big for the domestic E-Cats. Because to get a safety certifications for an apparatus that has a tank of hydrogen, was very difficult. And so we have resolved the problem. This is a tremendous improvement of our technology that we made in these last times. We have resolved that problem using temperatures.
The charge is consumed only during the operational work of the E-Cat. So if you work hard one day and stop and do not make the E-Cat work for five days, of course the charge consumes only during that day, not the other five. So when we say that a charge lasts one hundred and eighty days. This does not mean one hundred and eighty calendar days. It means one hundred and eighty operational days.
We are organizing the network. With licenses and with agencies. We will end, we will also sell the E-Cats in the internet. And again, to organize the assistance network, we will ask to the customers to put us in contact with their usual trusted contractor or plumber or installer… So that we will have the experience there. He will have the usual assistance, and we will extend this way in an assistance network close to where have real customers.
Automatically, the E-Cat will go into self-sustain mode when control system will decide. The 10 kilowatt E-Cat will work exactly as the one megawatt E-Cat under it’s point of view. This will be a completely automatically done. It is not something like in an electric car. Like in today’s electric car, is the control system that decides when it goes by gas or goes by the battery. The driver has just to drive. The E-Cat will go into self-sustain mode or in drive mode, automatically. This will not be a choice of the owner.
The transmutation of nickel to copper is a side effect of the working of the E-Cat. The main effect that happens inside is an effect that needs low energy gamma rays. The transmutation to copper is a side effect. Yes, we have got evidence of 511, 180 degree couples… I mean 511 kevs gammas, at 180 degrees. We got them which come from the reaction between the matter of the electrons and the anti-matter of the positrons. But this is just a side effect, but you know… To explain exactly the theory of what happens inside, until we decide to disclose the technology, it is basically not possible. But again, yes we got evidence, we got evidence and we will publish the documents about this of the 511 kevs.
You consider that every 10 kilowatts of power draw about 2 point, during the start-up, the activation period, we draw about 2.7 or 2.9 kilowatts of power. Basically during the activation, you consume 2.7 to 2.9 kilowatt hours per hour. And this goes on for up to, depends on… in a small E-Cat it takes one hour. In a one megawatt plant it takes a couple of hours, because there we have more complex problems. But in any case, yes, the activation energy is 2.7 kilowatt hours per hour, every 10 kilowatts of power of the plant.
The patent is still pending. We have our patent has been granted in Italy. So the process of authorization and study of the patent has been two years long in Italy. Then we had the patent granted. While the international and the US are still pending. Our patent attorney’s are working on it. I cannot say anymore, because this is an issue that does not depend on us. That is it.
We have to prepare for the production of a million pieces. That is the work we are doing. Of course the tests of the E-Cats and also the work with Uppsala and Bologna we will go ahead, but no more public tests. At this point, we are going to mass production of the E-Cats. And this is the job that we need to do. I just wanted to add that once the E-Cats will be for sale. I mean the small E-Cats, everybody will be able to buy one and make all the tests he will want.
We will start production in the fall. In the fall we will have ready all the engineering to start the production. And the sales will start in the winter. The production will be one million pieces per year. But from now to the fall, the work will be to prepare the factories.
We are walking deeply and profoundly to make the E-Cats at a very, very low price to allow people to pay back the E-Cat in a few months. The best help is to consider that getting an E-Cat, they save money for thirty years which is the expected life of an E-Cat. To pre-order an E-Cat is the thing that gives us a good way, is not risky, because it cost nothing. And when the E-Cats will be ready to be for sale, we will send to everybody who makes a pre-order a specific offer. And everybody will be free to cancel their order, or confirm it. And this is a good way to help us. And, do not send money, but just say, well, when the E-Cat will be out I will be ready to buy it. The price anyway will be between $400 and $500 dollars for a ten kilowatt system. This is a win-win proposal. And stay in touch with us, for now we have just to work.”
This is the link to the whole transcript.
Momentous Breakthroughs Announced During Anniversary E-Cat Interview
Journal of Nuclear Physics is Andrea Rossi’s web site and contains many LENR papers. Also to pre-order, comment on any thread to Andrea Rossi that you wish to be added to the order notification list. pg